Ryan Luetzow (R.L.): The Oscars are 97 years old. From “Wings” to “Anora,” movies have changed a lot in that time. That's why I'm looking back at one Best Picture winner from each decade to try and understand the movies that were, at one time, called the best. This is the Best Picture Show. Welcome to the Best Picture Show, the show about the very best movies about running for the glory of God. My name is Ryan Luetzow, and today we're talking about “Chariots of Fire,” a movie with a lot of fast boys, which is why today I have with me, noted fast boy, Will Luders. Hi, Will. 

Will Luders (W.L.): Hey. How's it going? Thank you for having me. 

R.L.: Of course. Thank you for being here. So you're a runner. What do you run? 

W.L.: Well, I do distance, mostly. Mid distance and distance. 

R.L.: Okay. 

W.L.: So anywhere from the 1500 to the 5k. 

R.L.: Have you seen “Chariots of Fire” before?

W.L.: I have, yeah, I watched it today, actually. 

R.L.: But you hadn't seen it before that? 

W.L.: No, this is my first time. 

R.L.: Had you heard of it? 

W.L.: I have, like, I've definitely noticed, like, a lot of, like, the references and everything. So I've definitely heard of it, and I'm glad I watched it, because, you know, I can see why it won, you know, Best Picture, and all these awards. 

R.L.: I think the first time I heard of it, was, I was watching the, I think it was the first Oscars I ever watched. I was like a little kid, and they opened it with, like, a scene of Mr. Bean, like, in “Chariots of Fire,” like running on the beach. So I think that was also the first time I had seen Mr. Bean, so it was a pretty pivotal moment in my life. 

W.L.: Yeah, well, that's, like, one of the most iconic scenes, like the beach running. 

R.L.: Yeah, probably the most. I mean, that's, like, all I knew about the movie before I'd watched it. I think that's kind of probably the reason it won Best Picture. I think it's the only movie who's like, won Best Picture for its first, like, two minutes.

W.L.: Seriously, no, it's a really cool picture, and it's a really, like, inspirational movie altogether, I think. But yeah, definitely, I can see why it won Best Picture, for sure. 

R.L.: Yeah, I kind of expected, because, you know, the score is so famous, I expected the that music to kind of be like throughout the whole thing. I thought that beach scene was gonna be, like, a pivotal scene, but it's just, like the opening and the ending, and that music doesn't really come back throughout. So I was kind of surprised by that. 

W.L.: No, it is interesting. I mean, I think it kind of sets the stage for, like, the tone of the movie, kind of what you're getting into, like, it's obviously going to be a movie about running, but also camaraderie, I think is a big part of it.

R.L.: So this movie’s about these two runners, Harold and Eric, and they're both on the 1920s Olympics team for Britain. Harold is Jewish, and Eric is a dedicated Christian. He's Scottish. And I kind of, from the premise, I don't know about you, but I kind of expected it to be like, kind of a more standard bigotry movie where, like, it's like, “Oh, the Christian guy and the Jewish guy clash heads.” But it's not really like, they don't even really talk at all. 

W.L.: No, they don't. No, it's interesting. I mean, yeah, you would expect it to be more like, you know, kind of like, “Remember the Titans,” you know, where it's like, a bit more of, like, a conflict, in there. But it's really about both of them kind of having their own, like, drive and their own motivation that kind of gets them to where they want to go. And I think that's kind of important, like, for any runner, any athlete really is figuring out, like, what it is that drives you. And it's not always going to be, you know, competition, like one guy versus another. It's going to be something internal, maybe. 

R.L.: Yeah, none of the team really have any conflicts with each other at all. They're all friends, basically the whole time. People kind of describe this movie as boring, which I can understand. It's slow, definitely, but it's like, it's like a race, you know, it's like, it's like, evened out. 

W.L.: Running can be boring sometimes. 

R.L.: Yeah, distance running. 

W.L.: You know, when you make a two hour movie on running, it's not always gonna be the most exhilarating thing, but I think there's parts of it to enjoy. 

R.L.: Yeah. Did you, would you say you like it? 

W.L.: Yeah, I did. I loved it. I thought it was really cool. 

R.L.: It's a weird movie because it doesn't, like fall into the conventions of kind of your typical sports movie, and like, even the endings are, it's not like some big you kind of expect it to be, like this rival, even, not even within the team, but like, with maybe the Americans, because they set up this other American guy who's kind of a rival, but it's not really that. It's all like internal conflict. And even when they win the races, it's kind of, like, sad, like, I mean, Eric, it's happy, but then, like, they're done after that. And Harold, there's this great shot after he wins where it's just like a close up on his eyes, and it's just like blackness behind him. It's like, he just won, and like, this is, and then it's just, like, this empty train station, and then just walking back, it's like, “Well, that's it,” you know, almost anticlimactic, but in an interesting way. 

W.L.: Yeah. And that's a lot of what running is, not to call, you know, racing, anticlimactic, I mean obviously I love it. But it's, you know, a lot of it is just an internal fight. And I think that's kind of what the movie demonstrates so well, I think, is that kind of internal, you know, longing to, like, do something more, give it your all and to kind of prove to yourself that you're the athlete that you've always wanted to be. 

“Yeah. And that's a lot of what running is, not to call, you know, racing, anticlimactic, I mean obviously I love it. But it's, you know, a lot of it is just an internal fight. And I think that's kind of what the movie demonstrates so well, I think, is that kind of internal, you know, longing to, like, do something more, give it your all and to kind of prove to yourself that you're the athlete that you've always wanted to be.” 

R.L.: So I think the most famous part of the movie is the score. And it's very like, synthy. It's not this type of traditional, like uplift, even though it's kind of like a standard, like, oh, uplifting, emotional scene score. It's kind of weird. The big, famous beach scene in the opening and ending is the only time when it gets kind of like soaring and beautiful, and every other time it's kind of like creepy and like static. It reminded me a lot of like Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross, the Nine Inch Nails guys, and then they did, like “Social Network” and “Challengers” score, where it's kind of like this, like undertone of, like, creepy, I don't know, dissonant notes. It's like, you kind of expect, like, really these, like, big running scenes to have like big emotional music, but it's kind of just like silent. I don't know if that's accurate to how you feel when you're running, but when, I mean, I'm not like a runner, but like when I run, it's like, you notice every little thing a little bit more. 

W.L.: Yeah, your senses are all heightened and everything, I think. But I think something interesting about the movie is, you mentioned that those you know, the opening and closing, like training shots on the beach. That's like the big, beautiful part, like the rest of it, like, you know, there's no glorious shots of, like, you know, the races or anything like, nothing looks, you know, stunning and beautiful in that part. It's really like the training and the camaraderie that actually makes you better, that actually gets you to where you want to go. I think that's kind of one of the themes, is that, you know, especially, like, I find this to be true. All the hard work is done in practice and in training. You know, it's really about like when you're, like, digging deep, you have to dig deep in your training, not just like you're racing. You race having already done all the training and all the practice and all, like, the dedication and all the hard stuff, and you're just racing to like, you know, pick up your medals, basically, the haze in the barn, as, you know, an old coach likes to say, but that's kind of like something that I think the movie kind of touched on, which is pretty interesting. 

R.L.: I think a lot of it is about, I mean, faith in both the religious sense, and also, kind of just like faith in yourself and the future. And Harold, who is one of the main characters, he's very confident in himself because he's really good, but he's, like, always worried about the future. Like, there's this great scene where he's giving, like, his big, like, speech before the race, and it's like while he's getting a massage from his coach. And it was Ian Holm, who got Oscar nominated for this movie, who I thought was great. The coach. In that scene, Harold is talking about how he's not really worried about winning. He's more worried about feeling content, because he knows, like, even after he wins, like, there's just gonna be something else that he's trying to get. And like, when does he ever feel content? And I think that was just something I feel, I'm always trying to, like, go for the next thing, but when are you actually, like, appreciating the moment? 

W.L.: Yeah, you bring up an interesting point, like the fact that you know, whenever you hit an accomplishment, it's always about like, looking to the next thing. You know, it's kind of like, I think up for debate, if that's like, actually, like a healthy kind of way of thinking, especially when it comes to athletics, like, I'll tell you right now. Like, when I joined the cross country and track team as a freshman, I was not as good as the rest of my, you know, roster was. In fact, I was kind of like time wise, like, bottom of the barrel. So I had a lot of big goals that I wanted to hit in order to kind of like, move up in the roster and kind of like, you know, prove to the coach and all my teammates that, you know, I can do this, that I can, you know, shave off, like these seconds, off my times, or whatever. Year after year, I improved, like, quite a bit, to the point where my junior year I was on like, the travel team for a regional meet, which was, like, a huge accomplishment of mine, but it's like, you get there, and then it's like, wow, like, there's still, like, all these goals that I want to hit. It's about like, now trying to find like, that content, you know, and it's like, the question kind of remains, like, are you ever going to be able to find content? You know, for example, like, I would love to run a sub four minute mile. How will I feel after that? Probably pretty accomplished. But, I mean, I would still, you know, go for the next thing. Then I want to break, you know, 3:55, or whatever it is. I think that's like a lot of runners and other like endurance athletes especially, and kind of talk to that about, like, you know, always trying to, like, go after that next goal, and never quite, like, feeling content. 

R.L.: The movie is book ended by Harold's funeral. It's like, you never really know how much, like, time you're gonna have. Then one of them, it said in the text at the end, died in World War II, which was only, like, I don't know, 25 years later. So if you're always chasing the next thing, eventually you're gonna have to stop chasing. 

W.L.: Clock’s going to run out eventually. 

R.L.: My favorite part of sports movies is always, like, the training montages, because, like, I mean, obviously there's like, “Rocky” and stuff.

W.L.: Yeah “Rocky’s” awesome. 

R.L.: I think when movies are able to visualize that process for someone who doesn't, like, inherently know. Like, for example, in this movie, they have, it's not training, but like, they have the race around the courtyard, and they have to do it before the clock strikes 12. It's just, like, a cool, like, movie thing. And like, there's a part where the guy who does hurdles is, like, he has to jump over the hurdles and not spill the champagne glass, like, that kind of thing where they're using, like, an everyday thing to communicate what they're doing in the movie. 

W.L.: Yeah, it was really cool to watch like, you didn't really get that same, like, you know, training montage, like you see in like “Rocky.” It's still cool, though, to see like, how they trained, like, back in the day. I think they got like, a big part of that, right, really, just about, you know, repetition and ultimately loving it. That's a big thing that people are losing, is like they're forgetting one of the biggest components is actually loving what you do. That’s going to, like, help you get better at that thing more than anything else, I think. 

R.L.: But, the thing about the Olympics, you always needing to, like, be an amateur was always weird to me, because I just, like, I was like, “Why?” Or I was like, “Why did they need it? Or isn't it just supposed to be the best people?” And I think I do understand kind of the point it being like, “We don't want people who are just here to, like, make money. Like, we want people who love it.” But I mean, obviously it's good that it's not just amateurs anymore, because, like, athletes should be able to make money. But like, but I do think, and then they try to, like, in this movie, they try to like, weaponize that against Harold, obviously, because they don't want him competing because he's Jewish. And then, and they make it about, like, his coach being half Italian and half Arabic, which is not very obvious, but they don't dwell on that too much.

R.L.: So about the movie. It was made in 1981. It's a true story, or Harold and Eric are both, were both real people. Most of the actors were unknowns, not really in anything before, and not really too many big names. I think Ian Holmes, by far the most famous, but he was kind of an established actor. He's in, like “Alien” and lots of stuff. It was the director Hugh Hudson's first movie ever. And at the Oscars, this won Best Picture, Best Original Screenplay, Best Score, obviously and then Best Costumes, which I thought was kind of funny, because I don't know, this is the same year as “Raiders of the Lost Ark.” It's like, what were the costumes? I guess, the uniforms. 

W.L.: The uniforms. It was kind of interesting looking back to, like, the past. 

R.L.: The hats. 

W.L.: Like, how they did the uniforms is so, like, you know, so bizarre to us. Like, why are they wearing, like, you know, like, dress shirts, and stuff for like, an Olympic race. 

R.L.: Yeah, there's, like, they're part of the training montage, Harold's wearing, like, a sweater. Like, a knit sweater, it’s kind of funny. This is one of those years where the the Best Picture winner is not the Best Director winner, which usually indicates kind of, like, it's not really a movie that's motivated by, like, one director's vision and more, kind of just like a story people like and in that case, it was “Reds” by Warren Beatty, yeah, this was also the same year as “Raiders of Lost Ark,” which I think is kind of crazy that, I mean, I would never expect that to win Best Picture, just because. 

W.L.: I've never seen that. 

R.L.: You've never seen it?

W.L.: No, is that the first one? 

R.L.: Yeah. 

W.L.: Okay, I have seen the first okay. I think that's the only one I've seen. 

R.L.: Okay, well, that's the best one. I like all of them. Well, I don't really like the most recent one, but I like all the ones that Spielberg made. 

W.L.: I’ve heard horrible things about the most recent one. 

R.L.: Yeah, it's pretty rough. There’s like, opening 30 minutes are all like CGI young Harrison Ford, it’s rough. But yeah, so I think it's hard to argue that “Raiders of Lost Ark” hasn't like aged better and become more of like a touchstone than this. But, I mean, it would be pretty weird if “Raiders Lost Ark” won, even though it's like, so good.

W.L.: Yeah, movies like that too, I think are more like they become culturally like, relevant, like, for a long period of time. I think, like, you know, like more like exciting, adrenaline boosting movies like that, whereas, you know, you have a, you know, “Chariots of Fire,” which, you know, great movie, it's not always going to resonate with the same audience, like, you know, 40 years later.

“Yeah, movies like that too, I think are more like they become culturally like, relevant, like, for a long period of time. I think, like, you know, like more like exciting, adrenaline boosting movies like that, whereas, you know, you have a, you know, “Chariots of Fire,” which, you know, great movie, it's not always going to resonate with the same audience, like, you know, 40 years later.”

R.L.: And I think in the 80s, specifically, kind of that standard for the the types of Best Picture winners we think of are like, either like these big epics, like, you know, “Gone With the Wind,” or these kind of big, like, three hour long epics, like as a genre, or they're these, like true story dramas, usually about, like, some sort of bigotry or something like that. And I think that second kind really came into its own in the 80s, where almost all the winners are, like, these very melodramatic a lot of times true stories. And I think people kind of got sick of that a little bit later. And I think it culminated with “Driving Miss Daisy” in 1989. I think people were like, “All right, enough of this.” And then the 90s are very, like, auteur driven. And then I think when people are like, kind of making fun of Best Picture winners, you know, like doing, like, parodies there, it's like, this type of movie, usually, I think this is one of the better ones, but like…

W.L.: I mean, that's how you know it worked. 

R.L.: Yeah, that’s true. It like, became a thing. And this was 1981 so it was still, like, pretty early.

W.L.: And still culturally relevant. I think, I mean, that's, you know, you can kind of see that through, like, the reiterations and like, the even, like, the meme-ification of, like, you know, some of those famous scenes. That's how you know it still kind of carries weight, even today. 

R.L.: Are there any like, particular things about, like, the way they run, or, like the training, or anything that stood out to you that's like, super different? 

W.L.: Oh my God, there's a lot I'm gonna sound like such a track nerd.

R.L.: That’s fine.

W.L.: Tracks have evolved so much in the past 100 years. It's kind of ridiculous. I mean, you saw like the track. 

R.L.: Yeah they have to dig the holes for their starting position. 

W.L.: And it's all dirt, and you can see the dirt like flying, and that's obviously, like, not the most efficient pavement to run on. You know, it's too soft and you don't get as much energy return out of it. Obviously, today, tracks are a lot more advanced, the more like rubbery or cushiony or even this kind of rough carpet is, you know, better for sprinters, because it has so much more energy return. But that's one of the things that kind of attribute to, like, you know, runners these days running so much faster than they were 100 years ago. Also, the shoes is a big one. You can tell that their shoes were like, nothing compared to what, you know, runners running today. Like, runners today will spend like, $300 on a pair of shoes that'll, you know, last them for like, one race. You know, back in the day, they were probably wearing the same shoes, you know, really cheap, like, just fabric, like, tied together, really rough, like, probably uncomfortable shoes, kind of got the job done, but definitely weren't giving the same kind of energy return. Another thing you can probably look at as a reason to why runners got so much faster as the years went by. I mean, obviously we talked about their clothing a little bit, you know, like, what's up with that? You know? You know, in the 20s and 30s, running is kind of at its peak, this big, unifying sport, and over time, it just loses interest. You know, as other sports kind of start to rise, like baseball and whatnot, you know, which tend to be a little bit more exciting and tend to draw bigger crowds. So running is all the way down at its lowest point, until you have a superstar like Steve Prefontaine actually wear Nike shoes and run like American records in it, and actually start to draw crowds again. His legacy is kind of what transformed running today, where it's like, you know, quite popular again. 

R.L.: Well, yeah, I didn't know any of that, so, yeah, I just…

W.L.: Definitely go check out the Prefontaine movies. They're worth watching. I think the best one is “Fire on the Track.” 

R.L.: Okay, cool, “Fire on the Track.”

W.L.: That’s a good one, yeah.

R.L.:  I've seen, like “Mad Men,” and that's set in the 60s, and they're kind of talking, it's like, when exercise is kind of becoming a thing, because, like, “What do you mean? You're just, like, running?” Like non-athletes.

W.L.: No one got it. No one understood. The biggest thing today is that runners and coaches know what it actually takes to make runners faster, whereas, like, in the 20s, they didn't know that. All they knew was that if they, you know, ran, like 10 miles with their friends day in and day out, that they would probably get faster. That's an equation for success. I think, you know, you don't have to always know, like, the science behind it to improve, but you do need to, like, have a love for the sport, and you need to, obviously, practice it a lot and do a lot more of it. I think that's kind of the key to success with a lot of things. 

R.L.: So I just have one more question. Obviously, you're a runner, so are you a train guy or a plane guy? 

W.L.: Planes.

R.L.: Planes?

W.L.: They get you there faster. 

R.L.: Okay, well, the music's playing and they're yanking me off the stage with a cane. I never say this, but the best guest award goes to you Will Luders. Thank you so much for being on the show. 

W.L.: Oh man, well, thank you for having me. This was a blast. 

R.L.: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much. Do you have anything you want to plug? 

W.L.: Yeah, go follow our Instagram for our club team. It's “Lion Distance Club.” Yeah, we're a relatively new club. We're still growing. We're accepting new additions to our roster, so shoot us a DM if you're interested in joining.  

R.L.: The Best Picture Show is a podcast hosted by Ryan Luetzow and produced by ROAR Studios. Opinions and ideas expressed in this podcast are those of individual student content creators and are not those of Loyola Marymount University, its board of trustees or its student body. You can subscribe to us on Spotify and Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to follow us at watch listen roar. This episode was produced by Ryan Luetzow. Special thanks to Emma Russell for technical guidance and Associate Producer Emma Singletary. Thank you to Will Luders for joining us and thank you so much for listening. Play us out.