”Wings” and the impact of music with Ella Lombardi

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Ryan Luetzow (R.L.): The Oscars are 97 years old. From "Wings" to "Anora," movies have changed a lot in that time. That's why I'm looking back at one Best Picture winner from each decade to try and understand the movies that were at one time called the best. This is The Best Picture Show. 

R.L.: Welcome to The Best Picture Show, the show about the very best homoerotic Air Force movies. My name is Ryan Luetzow, and today we're talking about "Wings," a movie with a whole lot of music, which is why today I have with me Ella Lombardi, a very talented singer-songwriter. Hi, Ella. 

Ella Lombardi (E.L.): Hi. Thank you. 

R.L.: What did you think about "Wings?" 

E.L.: I thought it was pretty interesting. The first few minutes in, I was like, "Oh, God, this is gonna be miserable." And I saw how long it was, knew obviously that it was a silent film, which usually isn't my forte, but I thought it was really interesting and surprised me. 

R.L.: Have you seen any silent films before? 

E.L.: Nope. 

R.L.: Never? 

E.L.: I mean, I'm sure I've seen some little clips of some, but I haven't sat down and watched an entire one.

R.L.: Yeah, for anyone listening who is trying to get into silent film, I probably wouldn't recommend this as like your first one ever, because it's very long and dramatic. But I would say it's probably like, either Buster Keaton or like Charlie Chaplin. Those are, like slapstick, like an hour long sometimes. And I feel like comedy from silent film translates much more to a modern audience than drama, because then you don't have to, like, take the cue cards with the lines, like, seriously. It's like, it's, it's kind of a leap for a modern audience, but I think overall, it's aged pretty well, the movie. I mean, it was made almost 100 years ago, and I think it looks amazing for one thing. The director, William Wellman, was a real pilot, so I think that really shines through in the movie. And especially since I feel like we're very used to seeing like a lot of CGI, it's pretty crazy just to see something and know that it's like real. 

E.L.: Yeah. 

R.L.: But the reason we had you on, specifically for this episode, was because of your knowledge of music. And obviously music comes more to the forefront in silent film, because there's not a lot of other things distracting. And at least for me, the version I watched of this movie, it was just the same like Ragtime, over and over again, like every minute. Was that the same for your version? 

E.L.: Yeah, I watched that version. And I do believe that there is, like, a fully orchestrated version of the film that's been restored out. But I didn't know that. I just watched the free version on Tubi, as we discussed. 

R.L.: Yeah.

But yeah, I thought it was really interesting. Should I get into it? 

R.L.: Yeah, get into it. 

E.L.: So in the beginning, obviously, it is very much just this, like quick, sort of like carefree, staccato piano music. And at first I was like, "Is he really gonna make you watch, like, this whole movie and just give me the same song, like, the entire time?" But as I was listening, I noticed that at certain moments it would like repeat specific parts that fit a general theme. And then I did my research on it. There's nine different themes used throughout the song. So there's like, one theme for when Mary comes on. That's like, "Mary's Theme." There's one theme for, like when the Allied Aviators are, like, flying together. They have like, this exhilarating, like, action sort of theme of music. And, yeah, that was really interesting. 

R.L.: Okay, yeah. So, Yeah, I didn't really pick up on that. I thought, I genuinely thought it kind of was the same song over and over again. So, I mean, that's, that's cool. It's good to know because, yeah, there, I looked into it. This was actually, this movie actually had a synchronized soundtrack at the time, which was super rare to like, have, like, specific music that was supposed to go with it. And most silent films didn't have those it was kind of just up to the pianist.

E.L.: No live orchestra.

R.L.: But I think that version is not the version that you can find online, because there is a version you can find online that does have, like, a different soundtrack, but that wasn't this version. There's like, multiple so it's this movie was lost until the 90s, which is pretty crazy for a movie that, like, won Best Picture to just, I mean, I think 70, something, like 70% of all silent films are lost because they just weren't treated as, like something that was supposed to be taken care of. But, yeah, I actually in the for the last like 30 minutes, I just wanted to see what the movie would be like with like, other music, because I was, like, kind of sick of it. This is maybe, like, sacrilegious, but so I just put, I just got my playlist of, like, it's like, seven days worth of songs, and then I just, like, shuffled it to like, see what happened. And you know, some of them worked better than the others, I think, for David's death scene, "thank u, next" was pretty incredible.

E.L.: I was gonna say, was it like, Gaga? 

R.L.: It was, yeah, that one. I mean, it kind of worked if you read into their relationship. The movie is about two Air Force pilots. All the stuff online says like, "Oh, it's about these two romantic rivals." That's not important, like, to their relationship at all. 

E.L.: That's the first 20 minutes. 

R.L.: And then she doesn't even come back and like, it's about these two gay pilots. I mean, kind of.

E.L.: Honestly, now that you mention it.

R.L.: I don't know. Pre-code Hollywood. Some people actually do consider this like the, like, the first LGBTQ kiss on-screen. Like, I mean, obviously that's not in the text, but that wasn't actually that crazy for the 20s. I mean, it was still taboo. But I think we think of like, the like, deconservativeization of culture as being kind of a straight line, and I don't think it really is, especially in Hollywood with the Hays Code that was instituted like in the 30s till the 60s, was like, very, very conservative. But before that, there wasn't really ratings and there was more stuff going on that was what we would consider more like modern thinking about race and gender.

R.L.: I really like the relationship of those two guys, because it starts out as kind of this love triangle thing with this other girl who kind of looks like Chappell Roan, but then they kind of become friends, and it's kind of a "Top Gun" type thing going on, which is another homoerotic Air Force pilot movie. So I guess that's a genre. And if you're into that, I would say, check out "Wings."

E.L.: Yeah.

R.L.: Yeah. 

E.L.: Definitely.

R.L.: And I was gonna say that, like, you know, usually most war movies you see are so, like, I feel like very much anti-war. And this one I was gonna say while I was watching it, like, this is like the most pro-war, war movie I've ever seen, just because, it's like, "Yeah, war!" And there's, like, no moral grayness, really, to it at all. But then in the ending, spoilers for "Wings" from 1927, Jack thinks David is dead, and he's like, really angry at the Germans. It's World War One, so it's not the Nazis, it's just the Germans. He's just, like, trying to, like, kill all of them with his piloting. And then David is actually alive, and he's trying to sneak back in to the U.S. in a German plane. And Jack doesn't know it's him, and he shoots him down. So I think you can read into that as kind of a critique of war a little bit. It's like the only thing stopping us from, like, killing our best friends is just whatever flag they're wearing. So yeah, if you want to read into it like that, I think it's possibility. And he says something like, 'It's not your fault, it's just war." So that does kind of that makes it a lot more interesting, I think. But then there's like a middle chunk of an hour where it's just, like, War, war, war!" It goes on for a very long time.

E.L.: Yeah. I mean, there was definitely that one part at the end that was just all war scenes. And again, I think with the music, part of it, it's very like carefree and almost like dancing music, which I think would be interesting if we went back and listened to the original, or the soundtrack with, like the full orchestra and the contemporary bands that he had playing. 

R.L.: I did notice with this music, and I don't, again, don't know if this is kind of the intention or just the music that ended up being on this version, but it was like, almost always, like, happy music. Like, even though there's, like, death scenes and like, all this stuff, it's like, I mean, it's not "The Entertainer," but like, sounds like that, you know, like, so I think for the big war scene I had, let's see, "Supermassive Black Hole" by Muse. So that was a pretty sick song to go with that. Oh yeah, "Johnny be Goode." "Johnny be Goode" with the plane flight went crazy. And I think I actually, I feel like I sound so stupid that this actually worked for me, but I became, like, way more invested in it when there were pop songs playing. And I think that kind of speaks to kind of how modern a lot of the actual filmmaking techniques are in it, that it's really just like the sound barrier that makes it feel any different from a modern movie. 

E.L.: Yeah. 

R.L.: Earlier or last year, I saw "Nosferatu," the one from like, the 20s, with the live piano, and so he was just playing along with the movie. And it was, like, incredible just seeing him, like, improvise this music that goes along with the movie. And I found that, like, super engaging. So I think people kind of have a barrier to silent films in their head, which I understand, but it's actually, I don't think that different from watching another movie. It's just kind of the frame of mind. 

E.L.: Yeah, I feel like, if you're not someone who's super interested in music, and you're not someone who's super interested in film, and just you know, as like the average audience member, you're not going to lean towards watching the silent film. It's interesting with the music. Specifically, I feel like people would prefer to have lyrics in the music, like in modern, I don't know super, super modern movies and films or TV shows. They'll just do like, regular pop songs that you would hear on the radio. But I think there's a beauty to not having any of the lyrics too, because it leaves kind of a different emotion in every viewer. In a way, it's like they're not just explicitly spelling out exactly like the feeling of that particular moment, and instead, just like invoking it without words.

R.L.: "Wings," I think, probably would not be a movie that is talked about that much if it wasn't the first Best Picture winner. I mean, it is notable for the stunts and the airplane work, I think. It's the same things people were talking about with "Top Gun: Maverick," like, a few years ago, like, it's so impressive, like, how they got these cameras in the planes, and, like, there's real plane fights. And, I mean, it is super impressive, but this was, like, 100 years earlier, and they have cameras in planes. They have their real plane crashes, their planes fighting each other. It's like, pretty breathtaking. And I think just knowing the limitations they had kind of makes it more breathtaking. Because I think for me, at least, it's hard to be impressed by like, the effects of a movie, even when you know they're really good, just because you kind of, CGI is kind of like a magical word, you can be like, "Oh, well, CGI artists. I mean, it's impressive, but we know CGI can kind of do anything," so I think there's kind of more spectacle in seeing practical effects. 

E.L.: I mean, I'm not, I don't know anything about cinematography, but even I, like, had that thought, with all of the crashes and the different fights and stuff, I thought that was cool to see. 

R.L.: I was amazed just in the opening, like 10 minutes, because there's a shot of, like, these two characters on the swing, and this, like, swinging back and forth, and then there's stuff happening in the background. I was like, "Oh okay, so it's rear projection," but then a character runs from the background and, like, interacts with the characters on the swing, and then the girl in the swing, like, gets out and drives in the car with them in the back. And so I don't know how they did. That is really cool, I thought. And that's kind of like a classic thing that effects people say is, like trying to make the audience guess how you're doing the trick, and then show them that's not how you're doing it. And that makes it even more impressive. 

R.L.: Clara Bow, I thought was really great. She's got, like, these great big eyes that I think, she's kind of the, I guess, the Anya Taylor-Joy of the 20s in that way. So I think that that's probably why she popped so much as a silent film star. It's weird. She's kind of the, the symbol of the movie. And everyone talks about it like it's a Clara Bow movie, but she's kind of just on the side of the plot. And I'm pretty sure I looked into, I think they kind of rewrote it around her, because she was such a big star. But if you just were saying the plot on paper, she would like barely be in it. She kind of, she's the inspiration for Betty Boop, I'm pretty sure. Do you know Betty Boop?

E.L.: I do know Betty Boop. 

R.L.: Yeah?

E.L.: I didn't know that.

R.L.:  You know her like that? Like, you know Betty Boop, like that? You tight?

E.L.: We're not tight like that. 

R.L.: She retired in 1933 and became a farmer, so good for her. 

E.L.: Crucial information. 

R.L.: And then there's like this, 10 minute scene with, like, bubbles, animated bubbles, because Jack's drunk and he keeps seeing, bubbles everywhere. And then antics ensue. There's a lot of antics in this movie. There's training antics, there's plane antics, there's love antics. It’s got it all.

R.L.: I do think, one thing that's interesting about this movie, is how it kind of set the standard for what we think of as a Best Picture winner, because it's kind of this huge emotional, dramatic movie with every type of emotion in it, and it's a history movie. I mean, the history was only like 10 years old at the time, but it was a history movie, and it's an epic, which is, I think, when people think Best Picture winner, what they think of though, it's not necessarily true. For most Best Picture winners, there's lots of different types, as we're going to explore in this series. It's a great movie. If you're into silent films, you have two and a half hours, then I'd say it's a great it's a great movie. If you're not, then I  would say, probably not the best movie to start with. I think it's pretty clear why it won Best Picture at the time. I think people were plane crazy with like, Lindbergh had just done his big flight, and they start with a quote from Charles Lindbergh in the movie, who's like, "The real heroes are the young men fighting in the skies." So I think people were going crazy for planes. 

R.L.: Are you more of a plane guy or a train guy? Because you can only be one.

E.L.: See, I feel like I rarely take a train, but in an ideal world, I'd be a train guy. 

R.L.: Because I think it's more about like, what speaks to you, rather than what you use more. Because obviously, planes are more practical.

E.L.: Yeah.

R.L.: I'd say I'm a train guy. I think there's something very romantic, not like love romantic, but, like, kind of, like emotional about trains. But I guess there is about planes too. I mean, obviously, planes are more impressive because they're, like, defying the rules of humanity. 

E.L.: I just hate planes, though.

R.L.: Okay, fair enough. 

E.L.: You're always gonna be in the middle seat, squished between like, two people. 

R.L.: Yeah, they didn't really deal with that in the movie. They should have gotten into that more. 

E.L.: Lowkey. 

R.L.: Yeah. I went to a train museum once. That was cool. I'm gonna cut this part out. You got anything else you want to say about "Wings"?

E.L.: I don't know, music-wise, not super exciting. But if you go and do your research, it's pretty interesting. So I would do your research because I thought that was cool. 

R.L.: I would be interested in seeing the remastered version they did in like 2017 because I think they got the sound effects guy from who did, like the original Star Wars, I think made sound effects for it, so there's, like, plane noises and stuff. So I'd be into that. I think it was just showing at the Vista theater, but I was like, last weekend, I was like, "Oh, I could go see it at the Vista," but then I'm like, "But then I can't take notes during it." And also then I wouldn't have been able to listen to Bob Dylan.

R.L.: Well, the music's playing and they're yanking me off the stage with a cane. I never say this, but the best guest award goes to you, Ella Lombardi, thank you so much for being on the show. 

E.L.: Thank you for having me. It's an honor. 

R.L.: Do you have anything you want to plug for the listeners of the show? 

E.L.: Yes! My name is Ella Lombardi, and you can listen to me on any streaming platforms. I have two songs that came out this year, and they're pretty cool. 

R.L.: They are pretty cool, and they're all ragtime from the 1920s right? 

E.L.: Yeah, every single one. 

R.L.: And there's no words or anything? 

E.L.: Zero words.

R.L.: Yeah. Okay, so that's why we had you on this episode in particular, because it's like your genre.

R.L.: The Best Picture Show is a podcast hosted by Ryan Luetzow and produced by ROAR Studios. Opinions and ideas expressed in this podcast are those of individual student content creators and are not those of Loyola Marymount University, its board of trustees or its student body. You can subscribe to us on Spotify and Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to follow us at Watch Listen Roar. This episode was produced by Ryan Luetzow. Special thanks to Emma Russell for technical guidance and Associate Producer Emma Singletary. Thank you to Ella Lombardi for joining us, and thank you so much for listening, play us out.